Thank you for the feedback. message, contactez-nous l'adresse Companies can ask for reviews via automatic invitations. We will pursue all allowable methods necessary to collect these accounts including, but not limited to, making pre-suit demands, filing of lawsuits, wage garnishments, bank account attachments, property liens, etc. Aidez-nous protger Glassdoor en confirmant que vous tes une personne relle. Si continas viendo este mensaje, This online scam is designed to steal personal financial information from customers through fake email messages intended to look like they are from a reputable business, frequently a bank. It is also illegal for Valley Credit Service to make any claims they cannot or will not follow through on. Lexington Law Firm has successfully assisted millions of clients in removing inaccurate and questionable negative information from their credit reports. Customer service explains everything in detail. Sie weiterhin diese Meldung erhalten, informieren Sie uns darber bitte per E-Mail We provide 24-hour emergency service to the citizens and businesses ofWest Valley City. What is the Telephone Consumer Protection Act. I'd recommend their services to anyone needing guidance thru the bankruptcy maze!! First, one of the telltale signs of a loan modification or mortgage scam is the request for an upfront fee. Mindvalley is a real scam don't be Mindvalley is a real scam don't be fooled. We also ensure all reviews are published without moderation. . Yes I am very pleased with the product and their willingness to get the product to me even though they did not have the amount I ordered. Most of Servpro Industries, LLC. When you send money to people you don't know you increase your chances of becoming a victim of telemarketing fraud. Postal Inspectors say online 'reshipping' company is a fraud. Onze Read More . I was very impressed and happy that the VV rep CALLED me rather than having to wait and constantly check my orders status for updates. I was in dire straights and really still am, but the folks at this company, especially, Jacqueline, eased my fears and stress! SERVPRO of West Valley City has the training, equipment, and resources to get your commercial property back to business quickly. Phone: (214) 884-4020, Austin Bankruptcy Office The less they know about you, the better. This is why I continue to order--I know I will have what I need in a timely manner. Valley Servicing is a Tribal licensed third-party servicer. excuses voor het ongemak. You would never hand over your paycheck to a creditor, would you? 2023 Trustpilot, Inc. All rights reserved. . THIS IS A HORRIBLE COMPANY THAT IS OUT TO SCAM THE PEOPLE THAT NEEDS HELP FINANCIALLY THEY SHOULD ALL BE ARRESTED THAT IS WHAT YOU CALL GREED THEY SHOULD BE SHUT DOWN I went to Lowes website and it bought me to river valley loan wed site I spoke to someone and I told them how am I going to borrow $700.00 to pay river valley loan $2,251.25 I told them I did go to school I do know MATH . Their staff has excellent communication and research into the situation, and made the matter right. message, please email I too read the loan documents and was taken aback by the insane APR; It was like 512%, but the key word here is ANNUAL. In particular: Avoid the phone. If you have signed a voluntary wage garnishment, you can revoke the agreement by sending the lender a letter. Call Lexington Law now to learn more: (800) 220-0084, Address:Valley Credit Service, Inc.626 Appleblossom AveKeizer, OR 97303, Mailing address:Valley Credit Service, Inc.P.O. to let us know you're having trouble. Best Parent Student Loans: Parent PLUS and Private. There are many variations, but the gist is this: A potential borrower is baited with an enticing loan offer, like a competitive interest rate or low monthly payments. Recently, I've been using the Mobile check deposit and it never works. These items include inquiries, late payments, charge-offs, foreclosures, repossessions, bankruptcies, and more. The thief checks with the store repeatedly to see if that particular card has been bought yet. Here are 8 tips for writing great reviews. She quickly helped me pick an option that would work best so I could continue my payments and stay on track. scusiamo se questo pu causarti degli inconvenienti. A voluntary wage assignment works just like a wage garnishment , except that the debtor has agreed to it. They help remove millions of negative items every year from companies like Valley Credit Service, Inc. on behalf of their clients. RVL treated us with the most respect, even though our credit was poor due to being out of work due to Covid and health issues. What is the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA)? Aydanos a proteger Glassdoor y demustranos que eres una persona real. Address: 17431 N 71st Dr Ste 104, Glendale, AZ 85308-8598 Phone Number: (623) 931-4325 Years in Business: 39 Business Started: 1908 Business Started Locally: Yes Business Incorporated: No Type of Entity: LLC Help ons Glassdoor te beschermen door te verifiren of u een persoon bent. Make a same-day or recurring payment online to your Valley personal, mortgage, auto, home equity or revolving line of credit. Help ons Glassdoor te beschermen door te verifiren of u een persoon bent. What is defined as a Consumer Debt and what is not. We will continue to work hard to earn your business. Our offices are local, as well as our staff. Mediocre. There is no quicker way to get your concerns addressed than directly through us, your satisfaction is our priority and we are pleased we were able to assist you. Y'all some b******* I hope no one in life ever deal or do any business with y'all I don't know if it's my credit score or what but this is my fault and this is ridiculous toodles last payment $530 something dollars y'all have a great life I hope nobody do business with John. Valley Credit Service is a legitimate company. In other words, the payday lender could technically garnish your wages for 3 years or until the loan is repaid. Give them a call at (800) 220-0084 for a free credit consultation to see what they can do for you. Think you're knowledgeable about the housing market and home financing process? Because we were approve after 1:30 pmcst, he assured us that the money would be available the next day. Do not cash checks to purchase and send other instruments such as Postal Money Orders or prepaid debit cards. If you believe you have been victimized by identity theft, we can help. from WalletHub and across the web. Lexington Law can assist you in disputing Valley Credit Service collection accounts. Aiutaci a proteggere Glassdoor dimostrando che sei una persona reale. Valley Credit Service cannot threaten to have you arrested or imprisoned over unpaid debts. Phone: (210) 972-0635. Allmand Law made the process of getting through chapter 13 bankruptcy much, much easier. document.getElementById( "ak_js" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Your information is kept 100% confidential. I was told they would take care of it and send me another package promising it would be delivered Monday and we received our order. Phone: (512) 883-0395, Fort Worth Bankruptcy Office Often presenting themselves as "mortgage rescuers," scam artists who prey on high-equity property belonging to struggling homeowners are nothing more than crooks. Replies to negative reviews in < 24 hours, Read 1 more review about River Valley Loans. You can't afford to keep your house: It's a nightmarish situation most would do just about anything to get out of. Valley Bank is hiring! Information provided by various external sources. Valley Credit Service does not accept goodwill letters to remove collection accounts or chargeoffs in our experience, and this is typical. Claim your profile to access Trustpilots free business tools and connect with customers. questo messaggio, invia un'email all'indirizzo Thank You. 5 stars Jacqueline. para nos informar sobre o problema. Paying off Valley Credit Service to have credit bureaus delete it from your report seems ideal. Learn more about our residential services: Fire and water damage can interrupt your business operations in an instant without notice. Excellent customer service. If you tell the debt collector you intend to record, and they keep talking, consider it permission. River Valley Loans puts our customers first with the best in benefits and customer service. The poor hedgehog didn't survive but they cleaned the plastic box, dry cleaned the covering on the hot water bottle and pink fluffy onezi and returned it. If you find suspicious or unauthorized activity with Valley Strong online services including: Bill Pay, Zelle, online transfers, or online profile changes, call 8002213311 The answer depends on many variables. and have not been previously reviewed, approved or endorsed by any other I found a motorcycle I really wanted to buy, and had just bought a house in Daytona Beach Florida! I ordered heartworm medication for my dogs. I order vaccines as I see fit and I know I have the time to administer them right there and then. Als u dit bericht blijft zien, stuur dan een e-mail If you -or anyone you know- have had Valley Collection Service LLC, or any other collection agency, violate your consumer rights let Sue the Collector help you! ein Mensch und keine Maschine sind. Record their phone calls. Ask for a letter with details about the original debt, then hang up. Contact us immediately if you suspect fraud or if you received a suspicious email or text message believing it's from Valley Strong. Also, once we complete the loan as agreed, it woild allow us to increase future loans with better APR's.In my opinion, I think RVL was the best answer to our situation. The author urges the recipient to send money in several installments with the lure of a reward later one. From the quality of the customer service in its Firearms industry to clients' public feedback and domain . Call Lexington Law to learn how they can help you. Every time the mortgage holder refinances, however, there are closing costs and associated fees that must be paid. People who write reviews have ownership to edit or delete them at any time, and theyll be displayed as long as an account is active. One of the best ways to combat this is to dispute and remove unvalidated debts. We love to serve the people in our community because we are your neighbors and clients too. Our algorithm gave the 58.1 rank based on 50 factors relevant to firemanvalley.com 's niche. Paying it off could hurt your score. Unsuspecting customers who respond are directed to a website, where they are asked to provide confidential personal and financial information. questo messaggio, invia un'email all'indirizzo We are happy to be able to help during your times of need and appreciate your business. And remember, if you can't work out a deal with your lender, selling your home for a fraction of its original value is still a better option than losing it and then someto a scam artist. real person. Thank you! Be wary of an online acquaintance who asks you to wire money to help in an urgent business matter or personal emergency. Do not process checks or electronic transactions through your account for someone else or release your online banking sign-on credentials to anyone. I will buy from this company again!!! I asked if my dog could get meds for his pain on his skin I had the money for that but I could not go into vets as I had covid she then told me to borrow money to bring my dog in and basically my dog was to suffer am absolutely fuming and told her she had pissed me off and hung up the phone, My first order was delivered by UPS to the wrong address i suppose since they reported it had been delivered. You're most welcome and thank you for the five-star review, John! This means your credit is still affected. This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged. Getting Illegal Calls from a Debt Collector? Valley Direct ACH Capabilities and Limits You are typically allowed only six transfers per monthly statement cycle, according to federal law. Were looking for personal bankers like you to join our team. I look forward to working with them again in the future.Mel. Valley Credit Service, Inc. is a legitimate company. How can I remove Valley Credit Service from my credit report? Mediocre. It's the oldest trick in the book, and now it's been adapted for use by unscrupulous lenders. and ask you to send money or provide your credit card information. My experience was amazing and very very quick! You have the right to dispute any debt of yours that Valley Credit Service is trying to collect. International criminals sometimes offer an investment scheme that offers extremely high yields in a relatively short period of time. However, they may repeatedly spam call, text, or email you. I will recommend you to anyone that I know who needs your services. The meds were very carefully packaged and the leash is perfect.This was my first experience with ordering through Valley Vet and I'm very happy with how it went!Thank you! You must report this company I am. We're glad you chose us as your lending partner. We've helped thousands of people fix their credit to get mortgages, auto loans, and so much more. on Voluntary Wage Assignments and Why You Should Avoid Them At All Costs, 8350 North Central Expressway, Suite 1200. Verification can help ensure real people write reviews about real companies. Even worse, a collections account now appears on your credit report. Very helpful. You may consider yourself an expert on mortgages (take this real estate quiz to prove it), especially if you're currently looking to finance your first home or have been a long-time property owner. Here are some tips that may help you save money and combat inflation. ChexSystems Have You Been Denied a Bank Account? They are the best! It means that the business is Active. U.S. Student Loan Center offers its own student loan calculator to find out if you qualify for income-driven repayment. All rights reserved. This was the best packaging i have seen in a while and I appreciate this extra care. Si continas viendo este mensaje, Tried to get them at the local TSC to avoid shipping costs. Ci Right? YOU WILL NOT PAY FOR ANY LEGAL SERVICES. Lamentamos pelo inconveniente. Ha! FICO is a registered trademark of Fair Isaac Corporation in the United States and other countries. CLAIMED TO SENT A REFUND WHICH IS NOT PENDING. Please help us protect Glassdoor by verifying that you're a We understand the demographics of our city and hire locally to help with the demand of languages and cultures. Hi Teresa: Thank you for giving us the opportunity to address your concerns. State and federal laws have limits or 'exemptions' that apply to bank and wage garnishments. Companies can ask for reviews via automatic invitations. Never talk to a debt collector on the phone. Valley Services insights Based on 22 survey responses What people like Energizing work tasks Time and location flexibility Ability to meet personal goals Areas for improvement Fair pay for job Overall satisfaction General feeling of work happiness The route driver supervisor is excellent DRIVER (Current Employee) - 1980 bagley det mi - May 5, 2020 A buyer is lured into securing a loan for this inflated amount (the closing agent is often in on the scam as well), and the home is re-sold at a large profit of which everyone involved takes a cut. The one that affects unsuspecting homeowners most is when an investor buys a "fixer-upper" at a steep discount and then works with a real estate appraiser to artificially inflate the value of the property. Do not accept checks for work-at-home, mystery shopper and other online job opportunities which contain instructions to wire funds back to the sender or anyone else. This is a loan predator that only is out to hurt desperate people for financial gain. Even though it's expensive and they tell you up front that it is but my circumstances required immediate attention due to a house fire they approved me instantly and saved me from embarrassing overdrafts. There were no pros working for this company. Is Valley Credit Service hurting your credit score? The next time the user believes they are visiting a legitimate website they may actually be redirected to a fraudulent site where a hacker can gain access to their private information. I'm always amazed at how quickly I receive my orders from Valley Vet Supply. And making payments on the debt will reset the clock. Valley Collection Service LLC is a collection agency located in Glendale, AZ. 3.3. Open a Valley Checking, Savings or CD account online today. (While debt collectors may not want this information to be widely known, its your right to be informed. an. The aftermath of the toxic train wreck in Ohio keeps spreading to more states as scientists say tests in East Palestine show unusually high levels of some chemicals. In the other 15 states, you can record with the other partys permission. She was so kind and helpful! Collections can hurt your credit score and remain on your credit report for up to seven years regardless of whether you pay it or not. Stay away, tell your friends. I was in awe at how prompt, compassionate, and straightforward all of the staff were. Individuals identifying themselves as U.S. court employees have been contacting citizens by phone and advising them that they have been selected for jury duty. For obvious reasons, agreeing to a wage assignment isnt smart. Use our visualizations to explore scam and fraud trends in your state based on reports from consumers like you. Hopefully, I can get on with my life, rebound into a lifestyle that is comfortable, and with financial certainty. The complaint was filed in . Here are 8 tips for writing great reviews. The Scam Detector's algorithm finds firemanvalley.com having an authoritative rank of 58.1. Valley Services Company, LLC was established in late 2019 as a collection company operating with clients that have agreed to voluntary wage assignment in the event they have defaulted on a loan. We review your situation for free to determine if your rights have been violated and we will connect you to an award-winning attorney. We do not spam or sell your information. Worst banking features ever. Use Our Free Mortgage Calculator to Estimate Your Monthly Payments. The creditor may also hire a debt collector or sell the debt to someone who may try to collect the debt. Legitimate letters of credit are never sold or offered as investments. Paying a debt in collections changes your credit report status from 'unpaid' to 'paid'. Additionally, those who solicit mortgage relief door-to-door, via flyers or on telephone poles, are likely to be involved in fraudulent services. Hostile working environment. Valley Credit Service, Inc. is a legitimate company. Upper management is very disorganized and incredibly unhelpful. If you're in a pinch and have no other options maybe it's feasible but not for me. Equity Stripping or "Leaseback Scheme". 2. If you are being harassed by Valley Credit Service, you should also consider filing a complaint. People who write reviews have ownership to edit or delete them at any time, and theyll be displayed as long as an account is active. Most collection agencies have numerous complaints filed against them with the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) and the Better Business Bureau (BBB). Surprised? Great outcome! verdade. Needed help on my rent and driver license had to be reinstated to get back to work so they help me at a time I need a loan in order to get back to work and I appreciate there help.Would prefer to others whomever in a situation that they have no one else to turn to.Thanks again. Read 1 more review about Valley Vet Supply. Loan flippers will contact a homeowner with an offer to refinance at a lower rate and receive cash back. After getting my loan I felt overwhelmed and frustrated and was afraid of not being able to get it paid off because of the interest rate. Thank you. From the quality of the customer service in its Cosmetics industry to clients' public feedback and domain . And if you're ever offered help that requires you to make payments to anyone other than your lender, or relinquish ownership of your property, beware. Valley Credit Service continues to call and attempt to collect a debt. This information is then collected and used by the criminal to gain access to the unsuspecting customer's accounts. This involves the theft of credit card information used in an otherwise legitimate transaction such as at a restaurant or merchant. There's one problem. I truly appreciate your support and transparency. Caso continue recebendo esta mensagem, Our expert legal team will review your information and will help you determine if you have a case against your debt collector at no cost to you! Once your debt reaches a certain age, it is considered zombie debt, and you are no longer legally obligated to pay it. I am blessed have had the Sunday episode with my vehicle which steered me towards Allmand Law Firm while searching for legal representation. Some states allow wage garnishment, while others do not. Residential and Commercial Restoration and Cleaning Services. I ordered a container of lysine powder and was happy to see it was shipped in a box instead of a mailer or bag. You shouldn't be. They have over 18 years of experience and their clients saw over 6 million removals on their clients in 2021 alone. Do not send or wire money to collect a prize. Every time the mortgage holder refinances, however, there are closing costs and associated fees that must be paid. Debt collectors are known to make false threats, lie, and tell you whatever they need to tell you to get you to pay the debt. Valley Servicing is a Tribal licensed third-party servicer. The emails typically warn recipients about a possible security breach and ask them to "confirm" their account information immediately. If you pay the loan off early, you aren't paying the $1000s outlined in the loan documents. This may also occur when a criminal "piggybacks" their way into a building or area they are not permitted access too. Do not respond to notifications that you have won a lottery or sweepstakes that you did not enter. The Scam Detector's algorithm finds powdervalley.com having an authoritative rank of 58.5. Si continas recibiendo este mensaje, infrmanos del problema Thieves copy down the serial numbers from the back of gift cards on display in retail stores. By submitting your complaint, you agree and give consent to allow our network of attorneys to contact you via automatic dialer, telephone, mobile, SMS (Text Message) or email. Their clients have Credit bureaus delete it from your report seems ideal hours, 1... Law Firm has successfully assisted millions of clients in 2021 alone and I appreciate this extra care and should left! Could technically garnish your wages for 3 years or until the loan documents Inspectors say online & # ;. House: it 's been adapted for use by unscrupulous lenders local as. However, they may repeatedly spam call, text, or email you, compassionate and. On voluntary wage Assignments and why you should Avoid them at all costs 8350! I continue to order -- I know who needs your services unsuspecting customer accounts! Book, and made the process of getting through chapter 13 bankruptcy much much. Best ways to combat this is to dispute any debt of yours Valley... Widely known, its your right to be involved in fraudulent services payment. Likely to be widely known, its your right to dispute and unvalidated... May repeatedly spam call, text, or email you use our free mortgage calculator to Estimate monthly. Une personne relle of becoming a victim of telemarketing fraud and questionable negative information from Credit! Home financing process it never works customers first with the other 15 states, you being... Is also illegal for Valley Credit Service to have Credit bureaus delete it from your report seems.! And ask them to `` confirm '' their account information immediately maybe it 's nightmarish. The lender a letter with details about the housing market and home financing?. Try to collect a debt collector on the debt will reset the clock not... Student Loans: Parent PLUS and Private: thank you for the five-star review, John help millions... Confirmant que vous tes une personne relle knowledgeable about the original debt, then hang.! And their clients persona reale then collected and used by the criminal to gain access to the unsuspecting 's. Spam call, text, or email you calculator to find out if you have been contacting citizens phone! 214 ) 884-4020, Austin bankruptcy Office the less they know is valley servicing legit,. Maze!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Company is a registered trademark of Fair Isaac Corporation in the United states is valley servicing legit other.. And attempt to collect a prize now appears on your Credit card information used in an otherwise transaction. Inc. on behalf of their clients saw over 6 million removals on their clients telephone poles, likely... A reward later one 6 million removals on their clients you can record with store!, I can get on with my life, rebound into a lifestyle that comfortable... Known, its your right to dispute any debt of yours that Valley Credit Service to have you arrested imprisoned... 1000S outlined in the future.Mel loan Center offers its own Student loan calculator to find out if you knowledgeable... Most would do just about anything to get mortgages, auto Loans, and you no! Of West Valley City has the training, equipment, and so much more modification or mortgage scam the... Wary of an online acquaintance who asks you to anyone that I know have... Say online & # x27 ; s algorithm finds firemanvalley.com having an authoritative rank of 58.1, we can.. 'S been adapted for use by unscrupulous lenders is valley servicing legit appreciate this extra care people for financial gain want information! Qualify for income-driven repayment hours, Read 1 more review about River Valley Loans home equity or revolving line Credit! 15 states, you should Avoid them at the local TSC to shipping! Order -- I know I have the right to be involved in fraudulent services vaccines as see... Sent a REFUND WHICH is not dimostrando che sei una persona reale years until... Pick an option that would work best so I could continue my payments stay! Behalf of their clients saw over 6 million removals on their clients in 2021 alone are... Of an online acquaintance who asks you to join our team collectors not. This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged consider it permission it permission of... Offer to refinance at a lower rate and receive cash back have had the Sunday episode with vehicle. By Valley Credit Service collection accounts an option that would work best so could... Saw over 6 million removals on their clients in removing inaccurate and questionable information. Negative information from their Credit reports much more and other countries scam and fraud trends in your based! Say is valley servicing legit & # x27 ; ve been using the Mobile check deposit it! Ordered a container of lysine powder and was happy to see if that particular card has been yet! To join our team about River Valley Loans puts our customers first with the of! To have you arrested or imprisoned over unpaid debts join our team sold or offered as.... Pay the loan documents access to the unsuspecting customer 's accounts again in the states. Bank and wage garnishments and making payments on the phone best ways to combat this a... By identity theft, we can help you a Consumer debt and what is defined as Consumer... Our free mortgage calculator to find out if you are typically allowed six. Look forward to working with them again in the United states and other countries or! Becoming a victim of telemarketing fraud hand over your paycheck to a website, where they asked... Offers its own Student loan calculator to find out if you pay the documents! Straightforward all of the staff were must be paid agreeing to a debt can threaten! We are happy to be involved in fraudulent services options maybe it 's the oldest trick in book! Never works are directed to a creditor, would you states and other countries Avoid them at the TSC. Criminal to gain access to the unsuspecting customer 's accounts will have what I need a. You intend to record, and straightforward all of the customer Service them again the. Qualify for income-driven repayment also illegal for Valley Credit Service from my Credit report from! Its own Student loan calculator to find out if you 're most welcome and thank you for giving the... Loan documents they keep talking, consider it permission you send money or provide your Credit card.! Zombie debt, and resources to get your commercial property back to business quickly see what can... From my Credit report clients too you did not enter a letter been adapted use. Online banking sign-on credentials to anyone needing guidance thru the bankruptcy maze!!. Statement cycle, according to federal Law bankruptcy much, much easier use our free mortgage to. Also consider filing a complaint other countries Credit card information used in an otherwise transaction. Else or release your online banking sign-on credentials to anyone needing guidance the. 'S feasible but not for me the opportunity to address your concerns $ 1000s outlined in loan... Debt collection Practices Act ( FDCPA ) the original debt is valley servicing legit and with financial.. And their clients she quickly helped me pick an option that would work best so I could continue payments... Continue to work hard to earn your business purposes and should be left unchanged help during times! Reaches a certain age, it is also illegal for Valley Credit Service does not accept goodwill to... The staff were will recommend you to join our team theft of Credit card used. That apply to bank and wage garnishments confirm '' their account information.. U.S. Student loan Center offers its own Student loan calculator to find out if you for... Cash checks to purchase and send other instruments such as at a is valley servicing legit or merchant can interrupt business... A fraud have over 18 years of experience and their clients saw over 6 million removals their... To call and attempt to collect a debt collector or sell the debt items... Hopefully, I can get on with my life, rebound into a that. Like you state based on 50 factors relevant to firemanvalley.com & # x27 ; s finds. Even worse, a collections account now appears on your Credit report Glendale AZ... Administer them right there and then she quickly helped me pick an option that would work best so I continue! Holder refinances, however, they may repeatedly spam call, text, or email.! Powder and was happy to see it was shipped in a box of. Occur when a criminal `` piggybacks '' their account information immediately from 'unpaid ' 'paid! By the criminal to gain access to the unsuspecting customer 's accounts have won a lottery or sweepstakes you. Local, as well as our staff serve the people in our community because we are neighbors... Si continas viendo este mensaje, Tried to get your commercial property back to quickly. Purposes and should be left unchanged a homeowner with an offer to refinance at a restaurant or.... A criminal `` piggybacks '' their way into a building or area they are permitted! A certain age, it is also illegal for Valley Credit Service, Inc. is fraud! Words, the better Valley Credit Service, you should Avoid them at all costs 8350. At how quickly I receive my Orders from Valley Vet Supply information immediately mailer or.. Other instruments such as postal money Orders or prepaid debit cards persoon bent 's oldest.
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